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Controlling PV Growth...

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mtuppers
Traffic Value: $846.44882 Canada
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02/02/2015 02:39
i was thinking to post this idea yesterday but...

as a forex trader myself, I do not mind to share the systems that work.

also for real estate, you have to know how to invest,  as lock of money I can not invest that much, but I do know a source, that will help pv.
tupko
Traffic Value: $32,122.18249 Croatia (LOCAL Name: Hrvatska)
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02/02/2015 04:06
I see we all agree on one thing, we need more revenue making products.

let me roll back a bit to the first post
The main point of this topic is controlling pv's growth...
what it actually means controlling the raise of the debt and revenue

in order for pv/mtv to work smoothly and stay indefinitely sustainable is that these two factors need to be in a constant balance

it's clear that creation of this topic is raising awareness and concern that debt is starting to grow a bit faster(than expected) than revenue.
and as many people before me have already said, that's because we are not spending enough development funds on the revenue making products.

the situation right now is clear, we have too many investors at the moment but not enough programmers to put that money into a good use, hence the delays, which is why is Jo proposing these changes to the pv.

logical solution to this problem would be hiring more programmers to start using more of the invested money and start pumping out some revenue makers(multiplayer poker...etc..)
or use that same money to acquire other businesses which will bring profit or similar.
either way, that money has to be used somehow for the future increase of the daily results.

the only question is, which way of using development funds is the most profitable one.
paidverts
Traffic Value: $2,592,904.1508 Spain
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02/02/2015 06:37
New Products are a given... our focus has never changed from that. This is a separate idea to improve our economy / time saving.

Targeted Ads + ClickGrid will be on the way as fast as the programmers are able. But they're busy with other things right now.

I am asking for your feedback, and your ideas. Not necessarily your permission.... As I want to expand my horizons in terms of how I think about this // see if i have no considered something. Or if it can be improved! Which it certainly can.

Nothing is going to change with regards to BAP shares. This new system just limits how much BAP any one user can accumulate instantly; and thereby will limit the BAP available to buy shares with.
Users can still sell their shares for BAP to get a quick climb up the groups.

Purchasing via PayPal etc will need addressing. As for $1 purchases, it's not worth it as a result of transaction fees... Perhaps we can permit you to buy say $10 worth of ads, to be activated at a rate of 1 campaign of $1/day for the next 10days.

And regarding my initial idea... I'm actually wondering if leaving the limit at $1 or $2/day per user might be best... As this a PTC. Not a big ass investment. Climb the BAP groups by all means to maximise your cut. But people shouldn't really be investing thousands. That's kinda contrary to the business model a bit.

* And for PV to work, we need LOTS of users. Not one big one... Big investors are for MTV, to build new portfolio businesses etc... PV works best with loads of users. So perhaps limiting the max ad purchase to a tiny sum; will force our growth to go SUPER FLAT & WIDE! And not deep.

* Combining the $1/day limit perhaps, with increasing the bounds for the groups might be another thing. So you really have to committ over a long period to climb up the groups.

-------

And Bulk Ads, are for users more than advertisers. We will create dedicated advertising options for pure advertisers. They can buy ad campaigns of unlimited size, specifically for communicating with users.

But the $1 limit idea is radical...
However, I don't think it will affect our total ad sales all that much. As there will be 80,000 users buying $1 every single day. As they want to maximise their earnings. And then 80k users will turn into 150k users, and 500k users. So the turnover is still huge, but its made up all small users. And that's pretty much ideal!
... As then regular advertisers; make a big dent towards repaying users. Without having to pay $500 to repay 1% of our biggest user... As we'll never monetize a huge investor via paid ads. They'll always suck more out of the system than they contribute in traffic value. (Those people we need investing into the MTV portfolio, not PaidVerts)

-----

Anyway, I'll keep thinking about this.
As if combined with the next BAP exchange, whenever that comes to be. It might work really well. Especially if the BAP exchange can leave some legacy investments in the FT250 plan. As then those tens/hundreds of thousands, are repaying all $1 investors. And it'll keep the system super attractive for a long long time. Enabling MTV to be built & mature.

We'll see... this is a big potential change. But it might be the clincher to making this business model infinitely scalable & REALLY sustainable!
JamesRo
Traffic Value: $210.46293 Romania
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02/02/2015 06:37
I was mad and nervous when I've read what Jo said but after reading again and again I understant the reason behind his plan. Not make us happy but it's better totake this measures than let the system continue and loose all. Now I'll explain:

- BAP Share Swap - everybody will have shares and 0 BAP in System
- first week max $1.05 investment every day to take max 3100 BAP (For this you must sell shares, or keep some cash to have enough for 5-8 weeks of investment because if you have less refferals it's impossible to invest every day and raise your BAP. Share price goes down)
- we'll have low earnings this means everybody should invest money from own pocket not wait for refferals commisions(we are forced to pump more money in system)
- less BAP in circulation means that less people will buy shares for BAP, or the price in BAP must be low to make users to give their BAP
- every BAP-Share transaction will elimitate BAP from system... the BAP is already low it will be less and less;
- BAP it's very valuable, give you more and better ads and the Hunt for BAP is launched
- Now some Good News: Shares price will crash, this means new money injection in system from outside. Shares are cheap and because you can't invest more in Bulk Ads you are forced to buy shares then sell for BAP (interesting way to encourage users to use share market more frequenty - HERE was my proposal how to make them use market without force them, and make MTV earn more, but it might not work if the price drops)
- " the most amount of time to pass before any future swaps are potentially required" it's also good news

Everybody know that Bulk Ads creates debt, and a way to stop debt's growth is to apply some restrictions to Bulk Ads. Here's no reinvention of the weel. We need more serious advertisers than users running after BAP, and more products than sell BAP for money. Lets be serios everybody buy Bulk Ads for BAP not for visits, as a user said "nobody cares those visits we want BAP". Even users want to delete their undelivred clicks can't help PV because the system must return more 55% than investments. Those undelivered clicks are also a problem because force the system to give users aditional money even if the users have already 47.61% more.

Buying Bulk Ads it's more a kind of investment than real advertising because you receive 47.61% or 40,23% proffit. The ideea behind this kind of investment must be NOT TO LET TO MATURE SO QUICKLY and let more time pass, let the system to be able to remove some debt through recycling system. Everyone want to force the mature of their investment in bulk ads when they demant bigger ads.
hg56486
Traffic Value: $149.42089 Canada
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02/02/2015 06:51
Jo,

A "better" way to do it is that for the amount invested that is in the limit ($1/day, $5/day etc.), that amount would get full ~150% BAP return (3100 BAP per pack), and then after that the  BAP given per pack reduces to 101% percent (2121 BAP per pack). 
In this way, it is possible to continue to allow controlled growth of the system (BAP tax + maintenance fee + cash out fees would return the 1% profit back to MTV), while giving a super attractive and sustainable product to advertisers (advertising to paying users AND ~95% investment refunded after a few days!).
axl100
Traffic Value: $60.77536 Greece
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02/02/2015 07:01
Jo, in the highest groups the ads are still too big, nobody is earning 100-200 bucks without sweat, even shopkeepers and a shop need bigger investment.
nhice_01
Traffic Value: $312.03684 Philippines
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02/02/2015 07:08
I agree, if it will be limited to such a certain point on the system not allowing users to purchase more than enough that the system can handle "debts", it will be fair and sustainable, however, if Jo's plans would take place he also needs to make a way wherein Paypal users can directly buy shares on MTV since a large number of users are using paypal to purchase or cash out money, that way users will not be complaining on how slow the going up the ladder would be since they can swap shares for BAP and invest on shares depending on what they desire. It would also grant access to shares for whole lot of users from countries that other payment processors are hard to use. Like us, Western Union is asking for a huge processing fee if it would be used, Perfect money prepaid cards are really hard to find (as in rare and 40-50% overpriced), bitcoin would also eat up investment before reaching up the system. So what are the hopes for us? PAYPAL. grin
hrjustinptc - Forum moderator
Traffic Value: $8,376.82638 United States
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02/02/2015 07:54
I just think $1 is to small of a purchase or to spend $10 and then only $1 is use each day. What do you think about an everyday or weekly limit? The rule should apply all the time not just after a BAP swap. If members chose to purchase Bulk Ads when starting out they should be able to spend a good amount. 

100 to 1599    - 10 Bulk Ads/week
1600 to 12k    - 20 Bulk Ads/week
12000 to 24k   - 25 Bulk Ads/week
24k to 48k      - 30 Bulk Ads/week
48k to 96k      - 35 Bulk Ads/week
96k to 180k    - 45 Bulk Ads/week
180k to 360k   - 60 Bulk Ads/week
360k to 720k   - 80 Bulk Ads/week
720k to 1.5m  - 100 Bulk Ads/week
1.5m to 3m    - 200 Bulk Ads/week
3m to 6m       - 250 Bulk Ads/week
6m to 20m     - 500 Bulk Ads/week
20m+            - 600 Bulk Ads/week
50m+            - 750 Bulk Ads/week
100m             - 1000 Bulk Ads/week
500m             - 5000 Bulk Ads/week

This is just a rough everyday example of what the limit on Bulk Ads could be per group. Even if someone changes groups within a week their limit will not be updated until the next week. So someone could spend a little each day or the full limit all at once. With this example you can see that increasing BAP with bulk ads alone would be hard if ad issues average more then the limit. Basically the very top groups would only be for those that sell mass shares for BAP or win big on BAP games. The values I used here are just an example that should be fair for each group per week. I used bulk ad numbers instead of dollar values because the Bulk Ads are now $1.05. Each limit would reset and then also increase or decrease if the members group changes the same time as processor limits reset each week. 
druth8x
Traffic Value: $22,417.44153 United States
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02/02/2015 08:39
I know your example is just Rough but lets apply some math, assuming 100% of site earnings goes to non Bulk Ads, and max outside cash is used:

Week 1 31K BAP
Week 2 31K BAP + 90K BAP = 121K BAP
Week 3 121K BAP + 139.5K BAP = 260.5K BAP
Week 4 260.5K BAP + 186K BAP = 446.5K BAP
Week 5 446.5K BAP + 248K BAP = 694.5K BAP
Week 6 694.5K BAP + 248K BAP (didn't jump a lvl) = 942.5K BAP
Week 7 942.5K BAP + 310K BAP = 1,252,500 BAP
Week 8 1.2525mil BAP + 310K BAP (didn't jump a lvl) = 1,562,500 BAP
Week 9 1.5625mil BAP + 620K BAP = 2,182,500 BAP
Ok, I've spent enough time on this for exact figures:
Week 10 = 2.8mil
Week 11 = 3.4mil
Week 12 = 4.2mil
Week 13 = 5mil
Week 14 = 5.8mil
Week 15 = 6.5mil
Week 16 = 7mil
Week 17 = 8.5mil
Week 18 = 10mil
Week 19 = 11.5mil
Week 20 = 13mil
Week 21 = 14.5mil
Week 22 = 16mil
Week 23 = 17.5mil
Week 24 = 19mil
Week 25 = 20.5mil (Finally hit Group 11)
Which means since your limits only increase by 100 and 150 and then finally 250, its going to take many many months, maybe even years, to get to 500m, and at which point, why even have a limit, except for 70%, cause no point in having billions tied up in BAP, rather be shares/plans.
plutonian
Traffic Value: $12,357.633 Singapore
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02/02/2015 09:02
@jo

Hopefully you will reconsider your thinking. Because there are many ways to limit growth in PV. 

Big investors are attracted to PV because they can get some money everyday, and still do something with their money and also keep track of their "investments". If we were to put our money in 250% plan, I would have totally nothing to do for a few months until I get my matured returns. 

I believe you can find a way to control how much ads is issued everyday, by lowering the daily ads issue, but make it very consistent and steady. PV currenly uses part of the money to invest in 250% and pay back via ads issue, it is as good as asking big investors to just use MTV for investments only. A right calculation will do the trick and keep things as it is. 

We are all change resistant! ^^

$2 a day, after 100 days (3 months!), i still will have $200 invested only in PV!. We should keep the bulk ads rolling in, and just distributing ads as much as the system can sustain. shocked
hrjustinptc - Forum moderator
Traffic Value: $8,376.82638 United States
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02/02/2015 10:36
The BAP groups were never really meant for someone to spend $30000+ on bulk ads just for group 15. The whole idea is to limit the amount of BAP that someone can buy. If someone really wants to get to those groups they can do it without buying Bulk Ads. Like Jo has mentioned a few times people will want to spend the limits. The limits can be changed to balance it out better it was just a rough draft. 

By limiting the sales of Bulk Ads then members who want traffic will need to use other options. So that will start to encourage more Cheap Traffic and Targeted Ads at some point. I think it might also increase BAP game play. So if someone just joins to play the games they can only spend $10 to start out. This prevents someone new from joining then buying as much BAP as they can and losing it all. Psychologically people that lose big might think its rigged and get mad. Limits give members time to explore and understand the business more. Keeping members in the lower groups for longer also helps to increase ad views. I think the pros of something like this definitely outweigh the cons. 

BTW Jo what happened to that gaming investment plan that you were brainstorming? Maybe you could try to add that in with the investment plans revamp. Then that would encourage more cash game play if they cant lose. 
yallit
Traffic Value: $2,148.94717 Philippines
1 like this post 1 people
02/02/2015 11:00
There's another way to control PV's growth. It's not going to be a popular option but for the sake of discussion, someone has to say it.

Lower the ROI. Instead of 3100 BAP, lower it down to 2750 BAP ($1.375 value). So with the ad pack cost at $1.05, this will give a gross ROI of 130.95% or a net ROI of 124.4%.

You can now have this model:

- $0.10 creates 33 instant ads, that get issued at random: 20x $0.001, 10 x $0.004 , 2 x $0.01 and 1x $0.02
- $0.10 of each purchase pays your upline
- $0.10 of each purchase is profit for the MTV Portfolio
- $0.10 creates 10x 1% ads issued to the purchaser over 10 days
- $0.10 creates 10x 1% ads issued at random to Super Users
- $0.10 is added to the daily ad issues, 2x5% per day.
- $0.45 is invested at MTV, need to return 2.4x

This increases the value of the random ads which will attract more PTC clickers. The lowest paid ad in most PTC sites nowadays is $0.001, so with this model, it allows us to do away with the $0.0005 ads.

You can still put a limit on ad pack purchases per day but with a lower ROI, you can at least increase the purchase limit to a much acceptable value.
Ryder
Traffic Value: $1,809.25245 New Zealand
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02/02/2015 11:19
After reading Jos latest comments a couple of times i am almost starting to warm up to the idea of limiting bulk ad purchases. As he says if this system was implemented he might need to have a low cap on a users daily ad purchase indefinitely otherwise after 10 weeks or so it would be open slather again and the debt would go out of control again. However.... we need to think about exactly how this kind of change would affect every part of this business.
With BAP being a precious commodity and not a lot to go around all of the games could really struggle to entice players and may not be profitable for MTV anymore.
The whole BAP group structure would have to be re worked as the spread of members in each group would be different than it is today.
That's just a couple of things there but i think the point is that a good balance between debt control and keeping PV an attractive investment opportunity is essential.
mob1us
Traffic Value: $904.8075 Pakistan
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02/02/2015 11:20
if someone is in group 9,he receives 30$ worth of ads,he will invest 1$ so he is not going upward,just going downward for time being.

(before BAP swap 1$/day limit will be applied or not?as my question above is before BAP exchange):p
Padoks
Traffic Value: $7,007.68709 Switzerland
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02/02/2015 11:48
I perfectly understand that MTV must be kept sustainable and that you're taking the measures to assure the profitability of the business. So do what ever possible to keep it profitable.

As the actions you intend to take are only going to slow the growth, this will give you some additional time before further BAP swap. So the question is how are you going to use it? At the end of the day, business will again go out of the control.

With current business model with PaidVerts, there are just too many things coming in between which are good for the business model but very discouraging for the users. It is obvious I think to you as well that this is only a temporary solution. If you use the time while the PV Growth is being controlled wisely, this might have some sense. If not, it's just a lost time.

However, the key statement of yours for me is that you stressed that for the PV model it is better to have very much "small" users and only few "big" ones forces me to consider dumping PaidVerts and concentrate only on MTV FTQ & Shares as ad issues below group 10/11 are not really interesting for me. 

Furthermore, PV in this form (Swaps & Controlled Growth & Swaps) is not an option for somebody who wants to play a bit bigger.. As this time point, there seems not enough of stability for steady income over months or a year for the top five groups. Something will come in between.

And Jo - please communicate this in advance. By that a I mean at least two weeks. Last swap was huge success for those who listened but due to communication and the fact that all has been executed within four days, many of the users created topics on other forums called MTV/PV a scam etc. You can avoid that by mentioning the swap much in advance.
axl100
Traffic Value: $60.77536 Greece
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02/02/2015 12:55
Hi everyone,
Clogging the system with  0.0005 ads do not solve the delivery problem, just makes the servers working for 1 BAP delete. Here is my 100% sustainable system with 80% delivery on autopilot.
 1) Ad pack goes at 1+(0-10 cents) for 50 clicks + the banners + 3100 BAP
 2) 10 cents for the referrer
 3) 20 cents for MTV revenue
 4) 10 cents for 10x1cent ads 1% personal
 5) 10 cents for 10x1cent ads SUU 1%  (each 2.99SUU gives u at least 1000x1cent ads ASAP and expires after delivery)
 6) 10 cents creates 20x0.5 cent ads and gives them at random (no filter)
 7) The rest 40-50 cents are capital reserve for PV investments, mannual Bonus ad issues, debt deleting issues etc -depending on the needs at the momentgrin
PS It gives pure profit  20-30 cents per adpack sold in 48 hrs.
PSS and of course there is no need for growth restrictios at all 80% of the ads are delivererd in the next day or two with recycling below of the half price of the adpack.
 
yallit
Traffic Value: $2,148.94717 Philippines
0 like this post 0 people
02/02/2015 13:10
@axl100, with your suggestion, 30 cents ($0.1 for SUU, $0.1 for personal 1%, $0.1 for random ads) is removed from the $1.55 debt, hence PV will need to come up with $1.25 to pay for the remaining debts. However, you only left $0.4. If PV invests that in the 240% Plan, it will only be able to generate $0.96. So there's still a remaining debt of $0.29. And this is without even allotting a % to be used for the daily ad issue while waiting for the investments to mature.
axl100
Traffic Value: $60.77536 Greece
2 like this post 0 people
02/02/2015 13:12
... The most sites uses the captcha only on random ads, this will help great with the delivery keeping the security level same
axl100
Traffic Value: $60.77536 Greece
0 like this post 0 people
02/02/2015 13:14
@yalli6t, in the big groups the ppl are buyng 100-200 daily, i think they will left the 1 cent ads for recycling mostly and 1 cent ad deletes 20 BAP debt
PS and i'm leaving 40-50 cents for PV to deliver with them the rest 10 ads at will, but this can be done  after months
Justin123
Traffic Value: $11,013.37121 Czech Republic
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02/02/2015 13:24
yallit: Another not too popular thing would be lowering referral commisions, as Jo suggested, maybe even lower then proposed, or limit them to just some part of pv transactions. (like first deposit, not reinvestments)


upline payments with accounts stacking + bots can become huge black hole for money, if it already isnt so.

just for example (not taking fees and recent adpack price rise into account):
someone invests $500, and spread this across chain of 5 accounts referring each other + 1 upfront without deposit, just collecting commisions.

last account would buy adpack for 100, 10 goes to account upline, so there he can invest 110, 11 goes to the next->111 to invest ->11.1 goes up etc,; first account will just collect and withdraw.
But this is not all, there is 5% of whole ad value going to the upline as well, possible to reinvest and milk commisions all the way upline chain.:

"If your referral buys $100 worth of "Bulk Ads". You get an instant $10.00 commission. And your referral also earns 310,000 bonus ad points. For which you will earn up to $7.75 more, if they click on all their bonus ads!"

And the amount of accounts stacked in the net is virtualy unlimited, and this example was just simplification, he can play with deposit size for each account to aim for certain BAP groups to earn as much as possible costwise.

current referral payments system is very generous and attractive for abuse and cheating. 

As significant reduction would be harmful for honest referrers (some of them invest time or pay for advertising of MTV/PV elsewhere)  there could be some other compensation system for them.
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